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What have you finished and what did you think (WHYFAWDYT) thread
Topic Started: Dec 13 2013, 12:06 PM (33,546 Views)
Harro
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The mediocre gameplay felt somewhat necessary as a design choice in my opinion, it puts you in the mindset of "This is a generic shooter with Generic Middle east enemies" early on before it forces you to gun down US soldiers, it's this jarring shift and the fact that the only difference between the rebels and the soldiers is the character model, they follow the same tactics and they feel the same to shoot. One of the harder hitting moments comes in the second chapter where you're killing the yanks when you can sit and overhear two of them talking about their childhood, confronting the player with the fact that these people you have been killing by the dozen have been people with lives and families outside this conflict, as the player has a life outside this game (unless they're a giant neck beard).

@Curt, If you haven't watch already, I'd recommend watching a lets play of the game. The themes and symbolism in relation to modern military shooters are pretty incredible, especially towards the later part of the game.
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Biceps Ben Six Pack Smooth
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Avoid Hot Dogs
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Red Panda
Jul 1 2014, 11:26 PM
Was really bummed at the recent announcement that the next Dreamfall game is going back to an episodic format. It was announced as episodic, then turned into a full blown release for the Kickstarter and reannounced back as episodic format for alot of reasons. Citing easier QA/testing, Voice over contracting and being able to increase the production values on a steady revenue of releases.

The only game where I kept up to date with episodic releases was with Telltales' Monkey Island 3D reboot. The waiting time really takes the air out of it. And that was mostly driven on humor up until the 3rd episode.
Yeah I actually backed Dreamfall Chapters and was informed about this from the devs through the emails that they have been sending during development.

I preferred one single story delivered in on piece but whatever it only slightly bothers me. Some people got real worked up as typical of gamers and threatened to take their investment money out because its not the product they bought and of course some even talked up legal action lol.
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Biceps Ben Six Pack Smooth
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Completed Batman AC, still have the DLC to get through. Really enjoyed it though the combat system for me took more time than I expected to where I felt in control of it and I could tear through a swarm of enemies in ease.

Havent got time to take on the additional side missions that I did not discover during the campaign and hell no will I be collecting the rest of the riddler trophies.

Unsure if I should jump onto Origins now or take on another game.
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Derpstrom
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Finished Deadpool last night. Was kind of hoping for an Arkham Asylum level gameplay but, sadly, the combat was mediocre. Enemies were limited and came in massive waves... hell the final level was just a huge arena with wave after wave of enemies you'd already encountered in the game. There's a challenge mode but, from what James has said, it looks like it's just the arenas without any of the SP story parts! I think the real disappointing part about the combat was that they had a decent variety of moves and play styles built in and the mechanics were executed well.

Levels looked fantastic (although the 720 graphics were kind of jarring after coming off Dark Souls 2 and Mario Kart 8). Aside from the hordes of enemies the levels were design well with unique environments and decent effects. Most important of all the game was hilarious! You have to like characters breaking the fourth wall and "lame" humor but, luckily for me, that's right up my alley! The level design matched it perfectly as well with mini game type segments blending seamlessly. I can't express enough just how funny I found this game. It constantly threw great scenes at me and varied them throughout the whole game so they never felt repetetive.

The game feels like a fantastic idea where all the effort was put into the mechanics/storytelling and the gameplay tacked on at the end. Still some of the most fun I've had playing a game in ages; laugh out loud and a big smile on my face fun that is.

Play it if you like games like DMC, Lollipop Chainsaw, and so on but don't expect the saem level of combat enjoyment as it's not there.

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What did you play it on?
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Derpstrom
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PlayStation 3.

Actually I should clarify first, were you asking me? Lol
Edited by Derpstrom, Jul 2 2014, 12:50 PM.
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I was indeed. I might eventually grab it down the line. One day...
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jamesh
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If you can get the game cheap, you should definitely give it a shot. In keeping with the self aware themes, the platinum trophy for Deadpool is named "Okay, you can sell the game now".


---
I finished off Gone Home last night. It is an interesting game, and didn't quite end the way I expected.
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Red Panda
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I think everyone expected it to go that way. But i really liked the ending of Gone Home.
Edited by Red Panda, Jul 2 2014, 01:45 PM.
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Red Panda
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Harro
Jul 2 2014, 12:21 AM
The mediocre gameplay felt somewhat necessary as a design choice in my opinion, it puts you in the mindset of "This is a generic shooter with Generic Middle east enemies" early on before it forces you to gun down US soldiers, it's this jarring shift and the fact that the only difference between the rebels and the soldiers is the character model, they follow the same tactics and they feel the same to shoot. One of the harder hitting moments comes in the second chapter where you're killing the yanks when you can sit and overhear two of them talking about their childhood, confronting the player with the fact that these people you have been killing by the dozen have been people with lives and families outside this conflict, as the player has a life outside this game (unless they're a giant neck beard).

@Curt, If you haven't watch already, I'd recommend watching a lets play of the game. The themes and symbolism in relation to modern military shooters are pretty incredible, especially towards the later part of the game.

Not sure if I buy this.

Mediocre gameplay will always be mediocre gameplay no matter how one were to spin it. The game could have easily went with the satisfying power-trip of punchier shooting and more enjoyable movement mechanics and ran with the idea if it were to say something, which is pretty much what modern shooters are. Particularly on the multiplayer front with progression to push players through mindless killing while gaining rewards, getting stronger and the sense of goal attainment and achievement.

And it would fit in well with the protagonist's character arc, too.
Edited by Red Panda, Jul 3 2014, 10:53 AM.
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Harro
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Red Panda
Jul 3 2014, 10:51 AM
Harro
Jul 2 2014, 12:21 AM
The mediocre gameplay felt somewhat necessary as a design choice in my opinion, it puts you in the mindset of "This is a generic shooter with Generic Middle east enemies" early on before it forces you to gun down US soldiers, it's this jarring shift and the fact that the only difference between the rebels and the soldiers is the character model, they follow the same tactics and they feel the same to shoot. One of the harder hitting moments comes in the second chapter where you're killing the yanks when you can sit and overhear two of them talking about their childhood, confronting the player with the fact that these people you have been killing by the dozen have been people with lives and families outside this conflict, as the player has a life outside this game (unless they're a giant neck beard).

@Curt, If you haven't watch already, I'd recommend watching a lets play of the game. The themes and symbolism in relation to modern military shooters are pretty incredible, especially towards the later part of the game.

Not sure if I buy this.

Mediocre gameplay will always be mediocre gameplay no matter how one were to spin it. The game could have easily went with the satisfying power-trip of punchier shooting and more enjoyable movement mechanics and ran with the idea if it were to say something, which is pretty much what modern shooters are. Particularly on the multiplayer front with progression to push players through mindless killing while gaining rewards, getting stronger and the sense of goal attainment and achievement.

And it would fit in well with the protagonist's character arc, too.
If they had the budget for it is another huge factor. You have to remember Yager isn't as big as Infinity Ward, Treyarch or Dice, Triple A games are expensive to make.

Also, I call bullshit on the "Mediocre Gameplay will never play a role." the Silent Hill series is a perfect example of a case where the gameplay was used to put you in a mood, The first 3 games had pretty horrid combat on your end and the enemies felt much more powerful than you because of this. Your best options were to run and hide as fighting these enemies head on was actively discouraged by the difficult maneuverability of James, Harry and Heather. Before you say "Better controls would have made the game more enjoyable, Silent Hill Homecoming, they had tighter combat controls and it played a lot better, but the rest of the game suffered as a result, you no longer felt like a helpless protagonist stuck in a hostile town that was infinitely more powerful than you, you were an Ex-Miliatry badass who could steamroll the monsters of Silent Hill.

Same with F.E.A.R., the series was not scary in the slightest because the shooting controls were so fucking good, you were death-incarnate as you plow through enemies with the occasional oogy-boogy moments that you could brush off.

Besides that point, if the game was a power-fantasy, that would require you to be enjoying the game, which is probably not what they were going for. In a similar way, there are some film's (Requiem for a dream, grave of the firefly's, etc) that aren't fun to watch, but have a far deeper underlying meaning and entertaining wasn't their desired method of demonstrating this.

Spec Ops demonstrates that it can be Engaging, but not Fun.
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Red Panda
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You are putting alot of words and concepts i never mentioned and are going on tangents. I never said anything about "Mediocre gameplay will never play a role". Mediocre gameplay will still be mediocre gameplay and that was pretty much it.

There will always be games where gameplay takes abit of a back seat. And they will almost always be criticized likewise if it is not up to scratch or engaging, simply because games are an interactive medium. Some games nuance this well and can get away with it (Like Silent Hill) because the game knows how to balance and focus on other qualities like exploration, interaction, atmosphere, pacing, story etc. and doesn't have its action sections front and centre and have them overstay their welcome. Other games like to throw in short bursts of simple passive gameplay in between the strong action to give a sense of pacing, which is where Spec Ops: The Line seems to have tried to accomplish.

The problem with Spec Ops: The Line (and why people almost always bring up its gameplay) is that there is alot of combat, alot. The combat in the game just cant stand on its own feet despite the different spins the game tries throwing at you. It loses so much steam even before the game gets interesting at about the half way mark. The fact that the game also happened to be bundled with multiplayer really cripples any notion that the game had intended mediocrity as the existnce of that mode plays off the idea that the developer was confident about its core game mechanics. There is really no excuse for dealing with bad squadmate AI. It's AI that results in constant babysitting of an undercooked squad mechanic that is present for almost the entire game; none of that has anything to do with delivering tone, or to convey some form of artistry.

I dont think it is fair to bring up F.E.A.R. F.E.A.R was great for what it is: a straight up shooter with impressive AI, movement and shooting; it was praised for just that despite its themes and aesthetic that rubbed those that did not expect so much shooting in the wrong way. It knew its strengths and ran with that.
Edited by Red Panda, Jul 4 2014, 04:00 PM.
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Moo
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I forget where I saw it, but there was a great article I read once which argued that Bioshock's gameplay is intentionally mediocre towards the end as a way of emphasizing how you, the brainwashed protagonist, will do what's asked of you even if you don't want to. Perhaps the argument was reaching a bit but I certainly agree that there's room for a narrative to be influenced by intentionally mediocre gameplay. I played Spec Ops too long ago to have an opinion on it in this respect.
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Killing is Harmless is a good assessment of Spec Ops. http://stolen-projects.myshopify.com/
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jamesh
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Red Panda
Jul 4 2014, 03:57 PM
The fact that the game also happened to be bundled with multiplayer really cripples any notion that the game had intended mediocrity as the existnce of that mode plays off the idea that the developer was confident about its core game mechanics.
Just focusing on that point, the primary developers of the game did not develop the multiplayer mode, and thought it was detrimental to the game. From the article:

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"The multiplayer mode of Spec Ops: The Line was never a focus of the development," Davis said, "but the publisher was determined to have it anyway. It was literally a check box that the financial predictions said we needed, and 2K was relentless in making sure that it happened - even at the detriment of the overall project and the perception of the game."

Against Davis' wishes, development on the multiplayer component proceeded and was farmed out to multiple studios before ending up at Darkside Studios. The result, according to Davis, was a "low-quality Call of Duty clone in third-person," which "tossed out the creative pillars of the product." "It sheds a negative light on all of the meaningful things we did in the single-player experience," Davis said. "The multiplayer game's tone is entirely different, the game mechanics were raped to make it happen, and it was a waste of money. No one is playing it, and I don't even feel like it's part of the overall package - it's another game rammed onto the disk like a cancerous growth, threatening to destroy the best things about the experience that the team at Yager put their heart and souls into creating."


In truth, it probably came down to limited resources (both time and money) rather than a conscious choice to make a mediocre game. The game could have been better, but what they released was easily worth playing.
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