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What are you currently playing?; What video game are you playing right now?
Topic Started: Dec 11 2013, 10:14 AM (143,408 Views)
NMANOZ
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It is also the case on XBL even with some big name games going on sale for 20-30% within the first couple of months of release.
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Sir Goodfellow
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Which is better between The Talos Principle and The Witness? I know I said I don't need any more games, but I have a sudden hankering for some challenging puzzles. The Witness worries me a bit because it sounds very difficult and the basic premise of tracing lines through mazes doesn't excite me, though most people seem to love it so I might as well give it a try. Talos sounds more interesting with a developed narrative and Portal-like mechanics, but I've heard less about it.

Whichever I end up getting, I do hope the puzzles aren't Myst-levels of obtuse. Anyone remember that game? I found it utterly impossible back in the day, making me feel extremely stupid and unsatisfied. I hated Myst.

I wish I could play Portal for the first time again. The original is as close to perfection as videogames get.
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Moo
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The Witness is waaay better than its description does it justice. It does a lot of ingenious stuff with the basic premise. It’s made by Braid’s developer.

Both games are arguably the best puzzle games available. Personally I prefer Talos, which has some entertaining philosophical stuff and a plot happening alongside the puzzles while The Witness is abstract and pretentious. But eventually you should play both.
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jamesh
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I've played both of those games, and would recommend both.

You're right that Talos is somewhat closer to Portal in its game play, but doesn't really feel derivative. It's story isn't as light hearted as Portal, and it is mostly presented through text on terminals (especially in the expansion that is included with the PS4 version).

The Witness is more abstract. Both in the fact that the puzzles have been distilled down to simple square boards sharing the "draw a line" mechanic, and that most of the narrative you'll find is quotes from philosophers. As I played the game, it was also interesting seeing how much of the island had been designed "just so" to support a puzzle somewhere. There are hard puzzles in the game, but most of the game is about discovering rules.

You'll often find simple puzzles near the entrance to an area that rely on rules you don't understand. You'll solve them by trial and error, building up a mental model of what the rule is. You then use that model to try and solve progressively harder puzzles. Sometimes your guess about the rule will be wrong, and work for some of the subsequent puzzles but not others. So you then need to come up with a new idea for what the rule is. Sometimes my first guess at a rule was too simplistic. Other times the actual rule was simpler than my first guess. As you progress through the game, you'll reach puzzles that combine the rules you learn from other puzzles in the game. Sometimes you'll encounter such puzzles before you've learnt some of those rules.

It isn't necessary to solve all the puzzles to reach the end of The Witness. This was done in part because some puzzles will be impossible to solve for people with colour blindness or hearing problems.

So I guess I'd recommend both games. The Talos Principle will probably be more familiar if you've played Portal though.
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Moo
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That’s a perfect explanation of what makes The Witness so good. I swear there were one or two points where it “tricks” you into thinking things work one way and then pulls the carpet out from under you so you have to reassess why things were working for you until they suddenly weren’t. It’s crazy how much thought must have gone into figuring out how people process puzzles.
Edited by Moo, Feb 27 2018, 02:01 PM.
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jamesh
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Also, while I wrote a lot more about The Witness, I still like The Talos Principle. It's mostly due to me playing The Witness a month ago, and Talos almost two years ago.

Talos has some really good optional puzzles where you try to acquire stars. Quite often they require you to break one of more of the constraints you've subconsciously learned while solving the main puzzles. I managed to solve some of the star puzzles myself, but a number of them are so obscure that you probably won't get them without outside help.

Apparently Croteam is working on a sequel to Talos Principle, so that's something to look forward to.
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Moo
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That optional Talos puzzle with the numbered pillars is literally impossible without outside help. I walkthrough'd all the star puzzles; I couldn't think them through at all. I did the base game without help.
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Sir Goodfellow
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I got Talos because it was $5 cheaper.

What I don't quite get about The Witness is that if it all comes down to 2d line puzzles, what is the point of the elaborate environments?
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Moo
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All the puzzles have a rule derived from the surrounding environment or influence the environment when they're solved.

To give one example, there's some early puzzles that have the shadows of tree branches intersecting with their mazes and you have to intuit that the shadows are effectively walls that you're not allowed to cut through.
Edited by Moo, Feb 27 2018, 05:17 PM.
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jamesh
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Yeah. There's a good reason The Witness doesn't have a day/night cycle or a moving sun.

There's all kinds of things that would be considered superficial/cosmetic rendering options in other games that are key to solving certain puzzles in The Witness.
Edited by jamesh, Feb 27 2018, 05:24 PM.
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Moo
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I played Oblivion tons back in the day and never came across these.
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Doomguy
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I'm pretty sure I vaguely remember encountering that last one. Classic Bethesda quality. Oblivion NPC dialogue is my favourite maymay

Fuck_Giver.exe has stopped working!
Does it matter how I write the truth?
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Moo
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Wowsers, I'm hella watching an LP of Life is Strange and I'd totes forgotten how amazeballs the dialogue is for reals.
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Sir Goodfellow
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While waiting for Talos and a few others to finish downloading (which is a slow, slow process in my room), I decided to play Hellblade. The gameplay is a little shallow, but it's a pretty great game regardless. The presentation and atmosphere are fantastic, and the way it completely immerses you in a psychotic's head space makes the whole game feel essentially like a sustained insanity effect. It's uniquely powerful. Even the gameplay is OK. The combat is way too easy and simplistic, but does feel satisfyingly hefty and is responsive and fast enough to be enjoyable when it comes up. The puzzles are also acceptable, though it's a shame there's only one type of perception-based puzzle, similar to the Riddler challenges in Batman, repeated ad nauseum throughout the game. Still, there are a few clever variations, such as the time travel level that uses an almost identical mechanic to Titanfall 2 but without the combat.

Anyway, it's really good! If it's still on sale on psn, I very much recommend it.
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Sir Goodfellow
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Moo
Feb 27 2018, 05:06 PM
That optional Talos puzzle with the numbered pillars is literally impossible without outside help. I walkthrough'd all the star puzzles; I couldn't think them through at all. I did the base game without help.
Yeah, I'm really struggling to wrap my head around the stars. I've got 2 so far. The beginning freebie and the one in B6, which was just a self-contained puzzle I did almost by accident while working on the sigil. I don't know where or how to even begin on the rest.

I had to use a guide on my very first red sigil. I felt really guilty about it, but the puzzle seemed completely impossible and I had to see where I was going wrong. Turned out I wasn't supposed to do that one yet since I hadn't been introduced to picking things up from above yet. It just never occurred to me that I could pick up the jammer while standing on a ledge above it. Other than that, it's been a really great learning curve. I haven't felt overwhelmed, but some of the red pieces have provided a stiff challenge. I'm currently stuck on the one called Deception, though I feel close to a breakthrough!
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