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What are you currently playing?; What video game are you playing right now?
Topic Started: Dec 11 2013, 10:14 AM (143,505 Views)
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Moo
Feb 24 2016, 12:03 PM
I feel compelled to give The Order 1886 a try after reading this:

https://killscreen.com/articles/speak-up-the-order-1886/
Even though I gave The Order: 1886 a 6.5/10, I really enjoyed it. It's flawed, that's for sure, but it's also really great to look at and oddly fun to play for the most part. I really hope they create a sequel for it as the mythology is really interesting.
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Doomguy
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I'm not. It didn't make a very good case for the game. It just complained that games are all too samey and that Order 1886 is a speshal snoeflake (Why? I couldn't tell you, nor could the writer) that doesn't fit the evil establishment's definitions and blamed heterosexual white males for it. It didn't even begin to explain why being an uber linear, QTE lacened game that should've just been a movie is good.
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Doomguy
Feb 24 2016, 12:57 PM
I'm not. It didn't make a very good case for the game. It just complained that games are all too samey and that Order 1886 is a speshal snoeflake (Why? I couldn't tell you, nor could the writer) that doesn't fit the evil establishment's definitions and blamed heterosexual white males for it. It didn't even begin to explain why being an uber linear, QTE lacened game that should've just been a movie is good.
If you don't understand the author's genius in being the only person to recognise that The Order is a masterpiece then you need to check your privilege you filthy white cis scum.
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Moo
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Doomguy
Feb 24 2016, 12:57 PM
I'm not. It didn't make a very good case for the game. It just complained that games are all too samey and that Order 1886 is a speshal snoeflake (Why? I couldn't tell you, nor could the writer) that doesn't fit the evil establishment's definitions and blamed heterosexual white males for it. It didn't even begin to explain why being an uber linear, QTE lacened game that should've just been a movie is good.
I'm assuming you saw red the moment the writer said "white men" and forgot everything before that, because he explicitly points out that the game has "fantastic moments", quality directing and a strong aesthetic. He called it unique because it defies what's expected of big budget titles and gets experimental, mixing genres instead of slotting comfortably into one.
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It does have a great female character in it. Someone who I'd like the series to focus on more if it does progress.
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Moo
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@Doomguy

Also I think your sentiment that a linear game with little player input should just be a movie is part of the mindset he's arguing against.

I don't how true that is of The Order but there are a bunch of games that fit that definition that wouldn't work as movies, like Telltale's entire output.
Edited by Moo, Feb 24 2016, 01:40 PM.
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It's got more interaction than TellTale games, that's for sure. It does have a few quick time events, but I think people are overstating how many it has. It's not like Azura's Wrath or anything like that - which I don't recall people complaining about as much even though from what I understand it's simply a quick time event in a four hour film.
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Moo
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 PM
Doomguy
Feb 24 2016, 12:57 PM
I'm not. It didn't make a very good case for the game. It just complained that games are all too samey and that Order 1886 is a speshal snoeflake (Why? I couldn't tell you, nor could the writer) that doesn't fit the evil establishment's definitions and blamed heterosexual white males for it. It didn't even begin to explain why being an uber linear, QTE lacened game that should've just been a movie is good.
I'm assuming you saw red the moment the writer said "white men" and forgot everything before that, because he explicitly points out that the game has "fantastic moments", quality directing and a strong aesthetic. He called it unique because it defies what's expected of big budget titles and gets experimental, mixing genres instead of slotting comfortably into one.
kek. I didn't see red, I laughed actually, because it's the calling card of the butt blasted contrarian tumblrina hipster who gives no fucks about games actually being good mechanically and just wants to see more colour blind, pansexual, muslim amputees. I really don't disagree that the main cast of big mainstream games does lack diversity, but I'm certainly not going to pretend shit are games are good to push that agenda.

"Great moments" means diddly dick, and "quality directing and strong aesthetic" within the context of games is basically just arguing for style over substance. I don't disagree that some cool stuff happens in the 'game' but it may as well just have happened in a movie. It would've looked even more convincing, their budget certainly wouldn't have stopped them. I do think that the setting and concept is great, but it's gameplay is so minimal in that it's constantly taken away from the player and given back in "press the button on screen when ordered to" form that I just couldn't conceivably call this game underrated with a straight face. It isn't an issue of "Well gamers just didn't get it because it did something they didn't understand" it's that it did something many gamers and critics just don't want, period.

I mean look at this boss fight (I believe it's the one the writer mentioned in the article). Sure it's a "great moment" in that you're fighting a werewolf, but just focus on the actual gameplay that's present. It's pitiful.

Edited by Doomguy, Feb 24 2016, 02:05 PM.
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Regarding Telltale games, they justify being games with decision making rather than interactivity.
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I personally think the Angry Joe review of it does a good job of covering its good and bad points:

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Moo
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Doomguy
Feb 24 2016, 02:04 PM
kek. I didn't see red, I laughed actually, because it's the calling card of the butt blasted contrarian tumblrina hipster who gives no fucks about games actually being good mechanically and just wants to see more colour blind, pansexual, muslim amputees. I really don't disagree that the main cast of big mainstream games does lack diversity, but I'm certainly not going to pretend shit are games are good to push that agenda.
That's hardly fair. He commented briefly on a lack of diversity and you assume he's the polar opposite of Gamergate. There is a polar opposite to Gamergate and it's very annoying, but simply noting that game design is dominated by white men doesn't put him in that category. We should still talk about social progress even though some people get puritanical over it. The fact that Gamergate even exists is indication enough that there's a gender problem in gaming, so people bringing it up shouldn't be a red flag for you.

As for you dismissing great moments, directing and aesthetic as style over substance, I think you and I must get different things out of games because those things are generally very important to me. And I don't mean this as a slight, but it's hard for me to take your comments about TO1886's gameplay seriously when Jingles is right there saying it's fun to play and you've never played it. I don't wanna watch the video because spoilers.
Edited by Moo, Feb 24 2016, 02:28 PM.
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As the guy mentions in the article - the airship stuff is really great. And that's possibly the problem with The Order is that it does a lot of stuff that is good - I mean, its visuals are next level stuff for consoles - but it also doesn't entirely commit to its story and ability to push itself past being simply a 'fun' game to being an essential game.

I know one of the main criticisms with it is that it's about six hours long. Which I find is an odd criticism because if you play through the game you realise that it cannot be any longer than it is. Six hours is a perfect length for telling the story that it tells and anything more than this is just too much. At launch it may not have provided exceptional value for money, but for the price it's going for now it's pretty good.
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Moo
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One of my old school hang-ups is that I can't pay $99 for a 6-hour game. I don't have the money to buy everything and I need longevity if I'm paying big money. So there's nothing wrong with The Order being 6 hours long in my mind but the pricetag. I'm not saying they should've released it cheaper though. There's no real reason why it shouldn't have had the same price as Fallout 4 or any other big budget game. But that price for those hours will always be a pass in my mind, until it's cheaper.
Edited by Moo, Feb 24 2016, 02:50 PM.
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Doomguy
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Moo
Feb 24 2016, 02:24 PM
Doomguy
Feb 24 2016, 02:04 PM
kek. I didn't see red, I laughed actually, because it's the calling card of the butt blasted contrarian tumblrina hipster who gives no fucks about games actually being good mechanically and just wants to see more colour blind, pansexual, muslim amputees. I really don't disagree that the main cast of big mainstream games does lack diversity, but I'm certainly not going to pretend shit are games are good to push that agenda.
That's hardly fair. He commented briefly on a lack of diversity and you assume he's the polar opposite of Gamergate. There is a polar opposite to Gamergate and it's very annoying, but simply noting that game design is dominated by white men doesn't put him in that category. We should still talk about social progress even though some people get puritanical over it. The fact that Gamergate even exists is indication enough that there's a gender problem in gaming, so people bringing it up shouldn't be a red flag for you.

As for you dismissing great moments, directing and aesthetic as style over substance, I think you and I must get different things out of games because those things are generally very important to me. And I don't mean this as a slight, but it's hard for me to take your comments about TO1886's gameplay seriously when Jingles is right there saying it's fun to play and you've never played it. I don't wanna watch the video because spoilers.
You're right that simply bringing it up doesn't make someone that, but I didn't really understand the relevance or connection to the topic at hand which made it feel like agenda pushing. It read like a subtle implication that white men need the wise guidance of minority groups to understand the subtle intricacies of the high art of werewolf hunting games or some nonsense.

And yes, that is definitely the case. I do value those things, but I think they're basically worthless when the gameplay ranges from being bog standard to outright poor. Those elements are gravy to the meat that is tight, fun mechanics, which I think is the core strength on video games that should be the top priority to capitalize upon. I think films do great moments and slick aesthetic much better than games.
Edited by Doomguy, Feb 24 2016, 03:06 PM.
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Doomguy
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And I understand how the legitimacy of my argument is hampered by never playing it, can't blame you for that. Basically a full gameplay video got leaked on youtube a bit before release (it was 5 hours or so long) and I watched about half of it. It really just looked like trash to me and I sincerely doubt I would find it fun.
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